00:00:00.080
all right we have one more free up here if anyone is really eager to disagree
00:00:06.440
with me otherwise this is an interactive session and I would like to start off with actually explaining the rules of a
00:00:13.519
fishbowl discussion because maybe you not all have been part of one and I think my last
00:00:18.640
participation it's been a few years actually okay so what's a fish po
00:00:24.039
discussion um you heard my my thesis already and I'd start off in a minute to
00:00:29.160
repeat it and I hope that you all have very strong opinions one or the other way around that thesis and you invited
00:00:37.600
at that point to come join me on one of those four chairs here grab the mic that's on the chair and talk to me we'll
00:00:45.520
have a discussion we'll talk about it and then there's four chairs available
00:00:52.079
with four microphones though there's one catch one chair with that microphone on it must always remain free so you can
00:01:01.199
always come in sit on that chair but then someone else needs to stand up and
00:01:07.040
this ensures that we are rotating and I'm also rotating right I'm not special in that discussion otherwise other that
00:01:13.520
I'm just kicking it off um but I also leave that Circle and then we just keep going as a group so that's the most
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important Rule and there's no other rule who needs to stand up right the four of
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us here in the middle we just with the social Dynam Dynamics in this group figured out
00:01:33.280
together right and we have we'll have my myself and Nina actually enforcing
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that we'll give you a little bit of slack time but not too much all right uh we have about 30
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minutes and uh the mics should all be turned on and I start sitting down
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because one one of equal all right where do I start story time
00:02:01.000
that's a feeling that's accompanying me for quite some time now um doing Ruby
00:02:06.200
for 13 14 years uh Ruby and rs
00:02:11.959
appreciate it I love you guys I still I still finish that go on go on and um I feel that my
00:02:21.920
STS were degrading um in my past job when I told other software Engineers
00:02:27.560
what I was doing my day job they were raising their eyebrows saying huh people still do that and I would say we just
00:02:33.480
you know your regular Ra Shop um I mean yeah we kind of deployed still on physical Hardware but it was not just
00:02:39.159
that right it was not just that looking at the Ruby conferences around the world
00:02:44.920
you could see attend these attending attendee numbers declining um and also looking for a new
00:02:52.040
job which I did at the beginning of the year was a kind of weird experience
00:02:57.200
because searching for a ruby job is it's not impossible you know it's not all vanished but it was definitely harder
00:03:04.840
and now sitting on the and that I mentioned before sitting on the other side of the table is kind of the same deal for me hiring Ruby Engineers is
00:03:10.799
equally equally weird because most of them have a lot of experience already
00:03:16.400
and might be not that super energetic midc career engineer who wants to build
00:03:21.760
[ __ ] all the day you know most of them are actually architects who want to sit in front of a mirror or have been doing software engineering for 20 years I love
00:03:30.000
Architects I've been doing software enging for 20 years now that they see themselves as managers and that's not
00:03:35.319
bad but it just makes it harder to hire Ruby Engineers so you want this mid-level person who's very easy to get
00:03:41.360
up to senior or or above but you can still kind of pay a bit less for no I i'
00:03:48.159
I'd pay a regular I'd pay a regular mid-level position I'd say and and those
00:03:53.879
people are hard to find that's the main issue for me they were hard to find may I ask the question what are you
00:04:00.640
doing for the ones below I mean in order to get to mid- level what you want you
00:04:05.720
need to invest also into those learning or getting into the job right I don't know do you have any Apprentice
00:04:11.799
positions I mean I I don't know does any of the companies you have have any uh or
00:04:16.840
working in any Apprentice in you can do show of hands who has a ruby Apprentice software
00:04:22.440
engineering there we go well I have the same
00:04:27.639
amount 0.0 to Apprentice why is that I mean yeah why is that I so the thing is do you have an
00:04:33.919
apprentice no I'm the thing is I'm working as a freelancer I'm renting out
00:04:39.440
my time um but I was also thinking if I should start or getting in imprints I
00:04:44.880
don't know if that even is legally possible it all started last year when I had a schooler intern for two weeks I it
00:04:51.360
was really great and awesome and but now he then he's gone and I said I don't know an apprentice for me as a
00:04:57.440
freelancer I'm alone but maybe I'm doing that I don't know then yeah look I would appreciate everyone that's invest in the
00:05:04.960
future invest in the younger and then also we might have new people I I um I don't know this is not this is the CH is
00:05:11.759
not about finding me a junior developer I just want to make this clear right uh i' rather focus on do you share the
00:05:17.080
feeling that Ruby is getting irrelevant uh though I want to answer to that I do have the official out shine which you
00:05:22.759
need in German to have apprentices and we might actually hire those people that just switched jobs and that was too short of notice until August
00:05:29.800
yeah invest in the Young Generation but yeah I have the feeling so the thing is
00:05:35.479
also the story of oh I need someone needs to leave I know that's good that's good
00:05:43.919
right okay so things I want to share also the story so that I I've been um R for 14
00:05:51.560
years um and then I started as a freelancer 10 years ago I was freelancing for 5 years and then I
00:05:58.199
switched up into a management position and was in the management position for 5 years exing and we didn't had any oh we
00:06:05.600
had some Apprentice but myself didn't it's a self-made problem because I was also was hiring them more seniors people
00:06:11.440
because it's easier it's easier but easier is not always the good thing and then I started freelancing two and a
00:06:17.800
half years ago and the market is also very different there are less project going on there's the maybe there's less
00:06:24.599
money in the market um but definitely I can yeah second to that he had a feeling
00:06:30.639
like okay is Ruby dead I don't know I let so I'm here to say it's not dead nice so we have like a total of 150 of
00:06:38.840
um developer team uh in in total not all ruby uh it's a lot of iOS folks uh and a
00:06:45.560
few Android doing some development and boy a ton of though Ruby microservices on the back end critical sort of a thing
00:06:51.919
for uh for the company where I am Hospitality I'm doing a payment system for them there's a lot of a broad range of what we do though on that and and
00:06:58.720
rails is absolutely critical for um for how we operate in terms of How It's tested I mean it's different in other
00:07:04.919
languages obviously there's testing going on but the ethos behind testing for instance is something that's really strongly ingrained inside of the rails
00:07:12.080
and the Ruby Community generally and the approach is a little bit different than might be with other sorts of languages I
00:07:18.039
appreciate it so uh it helps us to be able to deliver a better product uh a more reliable product it's critical for
00:07:24.039
us in that business space it is as you described though difficult to be able to find the right Talent so uh right now
00:07:29.599
we've had a little um little shake up little hiring freeze but we've gone and we've um going to go pick up some more contracted help over in Asia uh and then
00:07:37.280
possibly Central Europe as well to be able to kick it up a notch I think in the coming year we're going to do that but we are uh heavily invested in the
00:07:44.280
rails ecosystem thankful for the folks like over at Shopify that are helping out to be able to lean up and and do Co
00:07:50.840
good things like the garbage collection changes that are coming up in uh future version of Ruby some of that work going on Amazing uh to see like Ruby 33 and
00:07:59.280
the performance that it has in contrast I mean if you turn on the wiet thing it's a really pretty cool thing so um
00:08:05.360
we're we're invested we see a lot of future in it and it is very difficult to be able to find the right Talent maybe you're facing some of those sort of uh
00:08:11.560
sort of things currently I guess where are you searching well we've done um just around
00:08:16.919
England itself so I'm we're based out of London Soho house uh and it's uh it's been we found it's it takes a while to
00:08:23.759
be able to find the right senior uh to be able to get and we have some Juniors that are just wow they transitioned from languages over you know off JavaScript
00:08:30.720
or whatever else and then they're eager to be able to see what ruby offers and how that's different and it's been a
00:08:35.880
positive space that and and those guys coming from JavaScript what's usually there how do you teach it to them
00:08:42.360
because I I see and I hire a lot in Asian Africa and there a lot of JavaScript people and and they're very
00:08:48.080
smart just they have never even considered Ruby so it's the first time when I tell them hey can you join our
00:08:53.519
stack and then it's like oh yeah sure they haven't even thought about that so what's your learning process what do you
00:08:59.519
teach them how do you teach them from JavaScript to become senior rails uh well I don't know if they are they get
00:09:05.000
very quickly up to senior but we might have them up to mid level or whatever but what we'll do is um is just show
00:09:10.399
them the Code base have them pair with people and say all right let's really have you in the trenches then and um and
00:09:15.480
they're along for the ride and it's good bumpy adventure for a bit at the first they're like oh oh geez but you know it's so readable I mean uh Ruby has been
00:09:22.079
the inspiration behind a lot of how that Swift language that uh that apple had released about a decade ago or what um
00:09:29.480
that at the at the early onset like they essentially mirrored a lot of the language and the behavior even though it's a strongly typed language Swift uh
00:09:36.560
they had utilized a lot of the constructs and stuff and just borrowed it because there was at that era 10 years ago there was so dang much Ruby
00:09:42.160
Talent if they just loved the language so it's one of these very approachable languages it's something that uh the onboarding is not difficult I think for
00:09:48.760
people to approach it and be able to learn it and really appreciate it I think it's it's pretty positive I hope
00:09:54.279
hope that makes sense yeah it does I mean I don't know how you feel about it but I feel like this this what we had
00:10:01.200
back in the days the Hoku free deploy I think we're kind of
00:10:06.360
lacking that now like someone has a Play Project they send it in the CV and you look at the URL and 80% of the cases it
00:10:12.680
doesn't work anymore well selfhosted like Kamal yeah
00:10:18.600
just learn Kamal first like it's going to be fun it's not that hard but also coming back to the orig is Ruby dying so
00:10:25.760
I I I don't have I really don't hope but I don't think of and also have a feeling that I I think there was also a wording
00:10:33.800
around that that there's a Renaissance for rails that people are damn it that was a signal I I wanted
00:10:42.079
to go and and you have more to say so things uh looking back at the last years
00:10:48.079
it's also very exciting what new development comes out from the rails Court team and also I mean the new TOs
00:10:54.880
and also building full stack applications feels nowadays again like
00:11:01.000
back in when I started when we were and it's it's really awesome really great and uh I don't think it's dying and it's
00:11:08.120
I feel like there's a new shift coming and we the technology is there um the
00:11:14.240
yeah we we need people right to support them what I found interesting so um I I
00:11:22.040
talked to Ola earlier and I I asked him like what what what what are you transitioning to and he said you know
00:11:28.800
duh JavaScript and you know I'm I'm old and
00:11:33.959
I'm I'm grumpy and I I write a lot of JavaScript
00:11:39.360
and I wrote a lot of JavaScript in the last 10 years but I I can tell you that there's no love in my heart for that
00:11:46.120
ecosystem at all it is I would I would probably call
00:11:51.880
it respect um but that's the best thing I can say about it and there's so many
00:11:57.200
things going wrong there that I feel like what what the what why why why but
00:12:05.440
but then again you know it's it's um often it's a it's a question of like what you started with like what can we
00:12:11.600
hire for what what are what are people interested in and the like I I love that
00:12:17.800
we have examples of applications where there's a lot of Ruby involved still and a lot of rail stuff that's still going
00:12:24.360
on but like when was the last time you heard like someone actually developing a
00:12:29.880
new Green Field application with with rails that I mean I guess it still
00:12:35.360
happens but where and and how much in contrast to I don't know something like
00:12:41.639
15 years ago maybe so that's that's I think something that we have to reckon
00:12:47.040
with and um I'm I'm feeling like because I'm old it feels a little bit like it
00:12:53.440
slowly becomes maybe the cobal of of our time and that means on honestly that
00:12:59.720
means for a lot of people that means a lot of secure jobs and I'm I'm pretty sure that we're not there yet so don't
00:13:06.519
worry but like it's getting there right so um I want to to go back to whatever
00:13:12.720
you said on on what are we learning and uh from my perspective as a teacher at a
00:13:18.440
boot camp who does Ruby um the applicant
00:13:24.240
that the people want to come and study that is shrinking and we have way more
00:13:30.600
um react typescript kind of um uh boot camp um so also the number of people
00:13:39.279
were Junior and getting out uh with Ruby is less and less and I don't have 15
00:13:45.600
years of experience I only have five and I can always see that in those five years um since I started um sh shifted
00:13:53.880
my career that um yeah we are less and less relevant in the sense that uh feel
00:13:59.279
like there's a hype on on acceleration maybe of Technologies and uh I'm not 50
00:14:05.920
but I can see that we have uh no but like I I I worked with with
00:14:13.160
developers who like guys it's so hard for you like I've been programming for
00:14:18.759
20 years me five and the amount of things you have to keep up with is just
00:14:24.680
it's just crazy and I don't know right now if maybe the state of uh technology
00:14:30.360
or how we address or our relationship to technology is like okay um let's reinvent the wheel I have a new idea I
00:14:36.920
want to do it myself and I think we heard that many times like oh I can do it myself and sometimes I like an app
00:14:42.959
and because I have reals and I'm proficient with that I just copy it and I just do it myself as a freelancer also
00:14:48.800
I like just like um start up things right uh fast but um the point is that
00:14:55.440
uh maybe we're just for following the hype of being too excited about new stuff all the time um
00:15:03.040
and I think that's a main Trend but also if you get out of Ruby Community you
00:15:08.240
realize that everyone has their own bubble and Everyone likes that doing their own stuff and if you talk to I don't know react and they have the same
00:15:14.800
maybe feeling about typ scoop view or angular just getting around and having this uh race to new
00:15:22.120
stuff uh I I think I'm two years old developer and I started uh not that long
00:15:28.639
ago and I think we all need to give back to the community to share the race and
00:15:34.199
Ruby between the junior developers what because what brings me to programming in
00:15:39.360
in Ruby and programming in general was the Ruby Community I was testing other other meetups in my cities and so on but
00:15:46.000
the Ruby people strange people this is the quote from lenus thals uh basically
00:15:52.680
I think we need to create to uh attend the meetups and create presentations
00:15:58.680
that will be uh targeted at younger generation of programmers to the Juniors
00:16:04.000
and mid levels because I was doing a t in in Poland uh to the meetups and a lot
00:16:12.160
of meetups are targeted into senior developers and this is something that
00:16:17.680
doesn't talk to Juniors to people that just want to start and this is I think
00:16:23.319
the biggest drawback that we are not investing enough in into Juniors and we are not teaching the Juniors that's why
00:16:30.800
we are maybe someday we'll be cobal yeah I I see the same like I can
00:16:37.399
share lots of sentiments that have been shared today like there was a decline actually in um the interest in rails and
00:16:44.519
Ruby um everybody wanted to build Spa since like I don't know when the first
00:16:50.240
time I had to I had to do it like I felt forced I was like 12 years ago or so and
00:16:56.040
um I I thought okay maybe one day I get it maybe one day understand why people want to have a JavaScript app and a
00:17:01.800
backend app and and instead of doing it like the Wes way like we used to which was super productive and then it wasn't
00:17:08.240
productive anymore but um people loved it because it was new and fancy and cool technology yeah you you could do some
00:17:13.679
things we couldn't do before but um as Henning said before like um it feels like there's a technology technological
00:17:20.959
Renaissance right now like with um hot wire and those Technologies like um being able to build the old rails way
00:17:28.600
again to build a full app in the back end just bit put a bit of JavaScript in there don't make it so complex I'm
00:17:35.160
totally convinced it we be much more productive and I'm just in talks for a a new Green Field project like doing
00:17:41.240
exactly that and then I hope uh it will work out um I built uh actually together
00:17:47.840
with San one of the organizers this year like another hiding over there another small Greenfield um um um Ruby on Wales
00:17:56.240
hot wire app um beginning of this um year and so there are jobs but yes there
00:18:01.640
are less jobs than there used to be and I think sometimes the decision is taken
00:18:07.960
not to do it in Ruby anymore because of the talent issue like if you want to if
00:18:13.880
you want to start with a few senior developers that's easy nowadays you'll find them um at least the on that s the
00:18:19.240
Ruby and didn't move on to I don't know rust or go or whatever like people move on that's fine um um but then thinking
00:18:25.960
ahead like okay but what if I need to hire lots of jun mid- level people they're hard to find I'm not sure it's
00:18:31.960
the same in every country I know it's here in Germany um I'm not sure CLA said something about the boot camps which
00:18:37.320
country was that Germany Germany and yeah it's world like I've seen also like in in Barcelona or Spain there were a
00:18:44.440
lot of Ruby boot camps and I think also moved a bit to um to JavaScript I've got some context to uh um contacts to to
00:18:52.360
Nairobi uh there's still a ruby Community they still have Juniors there also because there some bigger companies
00:18:57.960
who who Junior so maybe at least my my
00:19:03.159
hope my idea is like maybe it moves a bit to to other countries We Have Heard lots of people Outsourcing to Indian
00:19:09.360
developers or so um maybe it comes back with the technological changes maybe it
00:19:15.400
doesn't I like it's um I'm I'm split on that like and it's also true like it's I think it's harder to find jobs but I
00:19:21.159
don't know I wasn't really like um applying much I'm I'm like position I've got a network and so people I can chat
00:19:27.720
with people and some something drops out often I believe that uh many companies
00:19:36.080
are searching for seniors and I believe that's one of the reason why we are
00:19:42.440
having lack of senior job lack of and everything is decreasing because why would you join a
00:19:50.039
boot camp when you are have no vision of
00:19:55.679
or or no no Assurance of being able to Lear the job if there are 20 boot camps
00:20:02.480
and there are two Junior position in the market then it just doesn't work so in
00:20:09.400
my opinion the issue is with the companies not trying to open Junior positions not willing to invest into
00:20:16.240
into the the new people everyone would like to do just yeah just hire medors
00:20:22.640
but how someone will be became meteor recently uh I saw an article and it was
00:20:30.320
some manager of one company located in brag and they were speaking Yeah we are thinking about replacing the Juniors by
00:20:36.840
Ai and having just the having just the seniors but it's in my in my in my in my
00:20:43.640
in my opinion that's de idea because you will have no more meteors no more seniors when there are no Juniors junior
00:20:51.559
is like part of all the thing and if we are not having Juniors we are really
00:20:57.240
dying several years ago there were those things like hey uh Ruby is dying because
00:21:02.320
of performance and this I don't know what about you but I haven't joined Ruby for performance I joined Ruby because it
00:21:10.200
was able to do some ideas that are from the object oriented design and they were
00:21:17.080
possible at the time only in small talk and Ruby and because small talk is way
00:21:22.240
older and having some issues Ruby seems like a clear choice and
00:21:29.039
yeah I don't know if there are many people that are going to just join the language just out out of this thing like
00:21:34.880
hey it's it's nice for something but I believe that if companies are trying to
00:21:40.240
save time now by hiring meteors or seniors they are actually killing the
00:21:46.400
Ruby um so I want to mention that I've been hearing Ruby dying for like 10
00:21:53.520
years in past time so that's interesting to
00:21:59.760
uh what I want to mention first um for many years uh there was a really really
00:22:07.320
um big uh requirements for skilled Ruby developers not juniors middlemen seniors
00:22:14.360
uh Etc after that uh there was um a big hit uh so the US companies they were
00:22:22.559
struck by these um two Banks were shut down as far as I remember and after that like them m
00:22:30.080
the number of oh nice I'll try to make it
00:22:36.200
short so uh there were a decline in the positions because um USA companies had
00:22:43.520
uh uh a p time right they do not know how things will uh evolve in future and
00:22:51.279
they're taking a break and after that's taking a break many Ruby developers senior Ruby developers are taking their
00:22:57.679
time so okay I cannot land a job on the Ruby project so what where should I
00:23:03.200
switch right and when time comes well there's no Ruby developers to like uh
00:23:08.600
mentor to uh take a position to do whatever
00:23:13.640
right so we should take it into
00:23:18.960
consideration I think I will return who's next um no
00:23:28.600
maybe someone else stands up do we still have time how where are we at ah I see okay I'll try to keep it
00:23:35.799
short to you also get to speak um so I also learned how to code at a boot camp uh two to three years ago also here in
00:23:43.279
Germany in Berlin and right after my boot camp I did the parttime so I did it for six months twice a week no Saturdays
00:23:49.960
that was tough but it was fun because it was Ruby um and afterwards I got uh or
00:23:56.120
somebody from Shopify reached out to me and uh they offered me a paid intern trip which I thought wow this is so cool
00:24:02.679
I went through the whole interview process and I finally I got the position and then they had this layoff I don't
00:24:08.760
know if you're like the 10,000 10,000 people who got laid off and they contacted me and they were like I'm sorry your position doesn't exist
00:24:14.880
anymore and I was like damn okay um so yeah for sure um that's difficult now I
00:24:21.480
um worked for as a batch manager at the same um boot camp as well for one year so I've had five batches of people
00:24:28.679
who've been um practicing rubyan rails um all around I don't know I would say 15 to 30 people and um they they don't
00:24:37.399
find jobs there's no Junior positions and that's that's the problem I think um because all of the positions
00:24:44.480
I now also got hired I'm actually staring my first job on Monday I'm excited thank you um but the problem is
00:24:52.679
there's no Junior positions for anyone um to take and that's also the reason why the numbers in the boot camps are declining because um people like when
00:25:00.440
they sign up to the boot camp they're like other jobs and people are like not really so why would I learn it you know so and that's where it gets difficult
00:25:07.120
and um I also got hired as a mid-level um which again makes sense but um they
00:25:12.520
they expect us to have three or four years of experience and especially as a boot camper you know like it's only the start to your journey and I also know
00:25:19.200
that a lot of people like kind of laugh about boot campers because we learn it in a very quick way but if you're excited about coding you then that would
00:25:25.640
only be the beginning right and you will start from this point and then you will continue and you study and of course you
00:25:31.320
can pretend to get knowledge of 10 years that in studying computer science um in 3 week or three months but if this is
00:25:38.559
the starting point and you continue you should be able to find a job within six months afterwards I think but you cannot
00:25:44.000
at this point and that's where the problem is we need more Junior positions thank you yeah um thanks um so I started
00:25:54.440
working with Ruby in 2017 so I think it's like it has been like around seven years now
00:26:01.640
and I'm in a place where I'm I think I should be a senior paid developer um
00:26:07.480
companies often want to employ me as a mid Lev um yeah so and then uh last summer I
00:26:15.320
was affected by a layoff uh from a US based company and when I was starting to
00:26:22.120
search for jobs I realized hey um before that jobs were searching for me now I
00:26:28.520
have to search for the jobs that sucks and also when I'm like coming with all my requirements for the jobs the people
00:26:35.480
say no and um so I was feeling a little bit like you know like a SPO child who
00:26:41.360
doesn't get what he wants anymore and I was really angry and then I um at the
00:26:46.760
alexir Meetup in Berlin the alexir people were like oh but you should do alexir jobs because
00:26:53.120
people companies who work with Elixir are still you know like wanting to have
00:26:59.880
you because nobody does alexir so whatever you do you will get all your requirements and all the nice uh
00:27:06.559
spoiling uh pampering um and I almost left Ruby
00:27:14.039
because of that and then I was uh yeah I I found a ruby job and it uh fit my
00:27:20.760
requirements uh fortunately but um in the back of my mind I have this like
00:27:26.000
Plan B with alexir because I want to be spoiled and pampered so I'm I'm saying
00:27:31.320
to the companies who say it's also hard to hire Ruby developers just give them a good salary give them what they want you
00:27:45.960
problem hello I have a theory what's happening we have to consider economy
00:27:52.840
here we have to see that economy is very bad in Germany it's growing growing
00:27:58.600
better but a grow of Z not three this year and even some years ago we had
00:28:03.840
Corona with negative grow in many countries so if you don't have a grow
00:28:10.279
then it's less um company will have less intens
00:28:15.480
intentions to train Junior developers most of the junior developers in the past in my opinion was trained by small
00:28:24.120
companies and in my case was like this when I come out of the univers University I get to a very small service
00:28:30.919
provider and say trained me but of course these companies um are not hiring
00:28:36.480
more people because they are in a surviving mode or even least to exist and now the bigger companies are saying
00:28:43.840
hey where are the um developers it's because the small companies are not longer training them because they don't
00:28:49.399
have money I think this is something that will improve it's already improving but of course we it will require some
00:28:55.640
time before the economy can recover then small companies grows again and are
00:29:01.200
there to train new Junior developers thank you this my contribution yeah
00:29:07.399
that's also exactly what what I wanted to say and I also wanted to uh to address Kaaya because this is um as I am
00:29:14.640
leading a small company um and um I have the opinion or I see
00:29:22.279
that Junior developers they request a lot and they do not think about me as a small company I do invest in un your
00:29:29.480
developer if you come to my visit my company I will pay you more wages than I
00:29:34.880
can get for your position so I'm investing in you as a junior developer
00:29:39.960
and then I have the fear I don't know if that's true but I have the fear the
00:29:46.159
always that um once you're a mid-level developer and I will
00:29:51.200
start earning on your position you will leave me because you will get more money in a different company in a large
00:29:57.440
company in a a um company that has venture capital for example that's the problem so yeah you have to consider
00:30:05.480
that um I don't know if there is a solution and I don't don't I don't want to say you need to request less money
00:30:11.919
you can request whatever you like yeah and I I I really want you to earn every
00:30:17.200
Euro you can but uh this is this is a problem I don't know how JavaScript solves that perhaps they have more
00:30:22.840
venture capital I don't know uh yeah I mean I've been
00:30:28.159
programming Ruby since I think 2008 and I've seen like myself the the uh
00:30:35.240
Community getting older and older and um something that you said when you announced the uh the talk round today is
00:30:42.440
something that struck with me because um I think nobody is actually against hiring Juniors you just but you need a
00:30:49.120
certain amount of seniors to actually guide the Juniors make them successful because I think that is what you want to
00:30:55.639
do and um I think like it seemed like you also like transitioned into a
00:31:01.519
position which is more management like and um I recently thought about uh it a
00:31:07.480
lot that is it actually possible to get the people who transitioned away from Ruby to another technology or to another
00:31:15.120
kind of role uh back into the senior positions and I think we already talked
00:31:20.960
a lot about um that maybe the onboarding and hiring of Juniors is neglected but
00:31:27.720
this this is like the other side of the story and I think we also um it is also
00:31:33.600
actually hard I mean uh now I can just tell from my personal position that if you have ever transitioned into some
00:31:41.200
kind of management role like having the opportunity to actually get back into a technical role maybe get back into a
00:31:48.360
ruby role where you could teach um uh Juniors um is also something that is not
00:31:55.120
at all uh a topic um um it is very hard if you are once you're out of the game
00:32:01.200
even you if you have been very technical to get back into the game and I think if we want to grow the number of Juniors
00:32:08.480
that uh can step into the for example Ruby industry you also have to take care
00:32:13.720
how do you get experienced people back into the industry that they can uh yeah
00:32:19.320
that they can take care of of the Juniors and make it create environments where that uh feel confident in taking
00:32:25.559
up more juniors
00:32:37.919
um congratulations Last Man Standing um I was just tasked with like finishing
00:32:43.080
this round off um actually I I would have just loved to to say on something like you said and it's also placed into
00:32:49.480
I don't know where you're sitting now uh the penultimate person who said something um that it's uh hard to to
00:32:56.600
have enough seniors in the the company and that people want to have too much money and it's true like in many companies they're less seniors in Ruby
00:33:04.799
it's also like I'm not employed I work as a freelancer why is that companies don't pay enough it's easy as that yeah
00:33:11.799
like it's it would be nice for me to be in a in in an employed position as a senior developer but I have so much more
00:33:18.200
free time I can take so much more holidays I get more money as a freelancer um in a company what would be
00:33:24.080
my choice become a manager take some other responsibilities and I'm not veler anymore then I can't help out with the
00:33:29.519
Juniors it's a visual cycle um anyway it was a great discussion I think I I personally loved
00:33:36.240
most um um the contributions of the junior developers in this round that because we I think most of us saw this
00:33:42.200
as the issue we don't have enough Juniors Ruby's not dying Ruby is great
00:33:47.799
RS is doing great but we have a bit of a problem with like young people coming in and and companies keeping doing that
